Discussion:
Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi
(too old to reply)
tkinnes@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-25 15:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Guru Dev's teachings and methods vs those of Maharishi Guru Dev, one of the heads of Advaita Vedanta [non-duality Vedanta) in Adi Shankara's tradition, taught daily living and Advaita to folks. He is quoted to have said to his devoted disciple Mahesh:


Quote:
Guru Dev then called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru Dev said:
- My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing remains. There was something else I should have done, but I did not have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the work remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a tradition that the father's task is completed by his son and what now remains you shall complete by yourself.
- Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains? Your wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can fulfil it.
Guru Dev said:
-Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p. 261] have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for the householder, which has been misinterpreted and forgotten during the centuries. This should now be perfected into a simple method suitable for everyone. Ask the people to sit and meditate after this method a few moments every morning and evening. Teach them to enjoy life. [Elsa Dragemark. The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas. Stockholm: E. Dragemark, 1972, p. 261-62.]

- end of quote.

This tells that the TM method and how to do it for old and new TM-ers is from Maharishi's Guru Dev - who is honoured as the Guru Dev of the TM movement, and by Maharishi also, even until his last words. He declared on 12 January 2008: "It has been my pleasure at the feet of Guru Dev (Brahmananda Saraswati), to take the light of Guru Dev and pass it on in my environment. Now today, I am closing my designed duty to Guru Dev." then he wished "Peace, happiness, prosperity, and freedom from suffering" to the world..


But there are issues to struggle with; to make out of. For example, did Maharishi teach all that Guru Dev had taught him, all of it? Did he swerve from Advaita content for the sake of adaptations? Did he find good replacement words for old Advaita terms?


Such puzzles have started to surface on another board, which is devoted to Guru Dev. Maybe many of you know something here. To help "starting the engine", let me render from the thread called


-----------------------------------
I RENDER FROM HERE ON:

"Guru Dev's teaching of meditation, comparison with TM"

Paul Mason writes he had a 1961 leaflet in which the words of Guru Dev are found alongside an appraisal of the meditation that Maharishi was teaching. . . . Clearly, the teaching is radically different in style. Despite different, specialized words relating to Advaita and meditation, the method of meditation seems to him to be very similar. And Maharishi was one of his disciples, so there is common ground between their teachings [and] many similarities.
The different vocabulary In 1967 Maharishi was interviewed for International Times and talked on his having adapted the vocabulary of Guru Dev, saying:-

'It is I who gave it the present expression, but I learnt it from him [Guru Dev] in the traditional way ... through very old expressions of religious order. Every religion has its own vocabulary; Hinduism has its own vocabulary; yoga has its own way of expression of the reality; Vedanta has its own approach. He taught me in the traditional way of yoga and Vedanta and Indian religious language. . . . (International Times {IT} 15th December 1967)


As for the terms Maharishi decided on, ideas got more accessible to us Westerners with our materialistic values. Maharishi was on the way to convert Hindi speech into English terms as early as in the Beacon Light book, where he started to remodel the vocabulary, says Paul Mason.

Paul wonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with, what word(s) did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.) Brahman? That is one question. Paul has noticed that Maharishi translates the word 'param' to 'transcendental' as in 'Param Brahma' and in 'param vyoman'.

Fair Sanskrit glossary:
http://sanskritdictionary.org/paramatma

Paul, further says it would be great to have a glossary of Sanskrit words that Guru Dev used and what Maharishi translated or interpreted them into. "Maharishi tended not to be literal in his handling of translation of phrases, preferring to bring out the meaning according to his own perspective and understanding," says Paul Mason, and: "Can [anyone] offer examples of these adaptations of the vocabulary, apart from andanda > bliss . . . ?"


Lothar believes one of the keys for understanding how Maharishi's terms derive from Guru Dev's, is the context [setting], that is, the audience to which the teaching is addressed.
Guru Dev in his day-to-day teachings talked to common Indian people.

Lothar further maintains that Maharishi [came] to adjust his teaching to Western people and therefore [made] one concession after the other - and to finally “to water down” the message and likewise the Technique of Meditation, where "
Maharshi was forced to twice 20 minutes regarding the practice. And . . . Maharishi had to be very careful not to endanger his mission and . . . speak in religious terms - although he did it in the beginning."

Paul says, "I am inclined to see that Maharishi was doing his best at teaching the techniques his master taught, in spite of dealing with students who did not have a leaning towards Hinduism, Advaita or yoga philosophy."


-------------------------------------


That's it!
Michael Jackson mjackson74@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-25 16:29:26 UTC
Permalink
what horse shit -who witnessed such a conversation? Marshy is the only one who ever claimed to have gotten the idea from GD and others who were their said GD told him he was to be a businessman, and not a spiritual teacher. If the track record of the Movement is any indication, even if M did get the commission from GD, he failed miserably in carrying out the task.

From: "***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:26 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

 
Guru Dev's teachings and methods vs those of Maharishi
GuruDev, one of the heads of Advaita Vedanta [non-duality Vedanta)in Adi Shankara's tradition, taught daily living and Advaita to folks. He is quoted to have said to his devoted discipleMahesh:
Quote:      Guru Devthen called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru Dev said:        - My time is up. It is time to leave, butstill one thing remains. There was something else I should have done, but I didnot have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the workremaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a tradition that thefather's task is completed by his son and what now remains you shall completeby yourself.        - Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet,what remains? Your wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I canfulfil it.       Guru Dev said:        -Look around. Many people are dejected. Thereis a lack of energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p. 261]have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for thehouseholder, which has been misinterpreted and forgotten duringthe centuries. This should now be perfected into asimple method suitable for everyone. Ask thepeople to sit and meditate after this method a few moments every morning andevening. Teach them to enjoy life.  [ElsaDragemark. The Way to Maharishi'sHimalayas.  Stockholm: E. Dragemark,1972, p. 261-62.]   - end of quote.   This tells that the TM method and how to do it for old and new TM-ers is from Maharishi's Guru Dev - who is honoured as the Guru Dev of the TM movement, and by Maharishi also, even until his last words. He declared on 12 January 2008: "It has been my pleasure at the feet of Guru Dev (Brahmananda Saraswati), to take the light of Guru Dev and pass it on in my environment. Now today, I am closing my designed duty to Guru Dev." then he wished "Peace, happiness, prosperity, and freedom from suffering" to the world..
Butthere are issues to struggle with; to make out of. For example, did Maharishi teach all that Guru Dev had taught him, all of it? Did he swerve from Advaita content for the sake of adaptations? Did he find good replacement words for old Advaita terms? 
Such puzzles have started to surface on another board, which is devoted to Guru Dev. Maybe many of you know something here. To help "starting the engine", let me render from the thread called
-----------------------------------I RENDER FROM HERE ON: "Guru Dev's teaching of meditation, comparison with TM" Paul Mason writes he had a 1961 leaflet inwhich the words of Guru Dev are found alongside an appraisal of the meditationthat Maharishi was teaching. . . . Clearly, the teaching is radically differentin style. Despite different, specializedwords relating to Advaita and meditation, the method of meditation seems to him to bevery similar. And Maharishi was one of his disciples, so there is commonground between their teachings [and] many similarities.
The different vocabulary
 In1967 Maharishi was interviewed for International Times and talked on his havingadapted the vocabulary of Guru Dev, saying:-

'It is I who gave it the present expression, but I learnt it from him [Guru Dev]in the traditional way ... through very old expressions of religious order.Every religion has its own vocabulary; Hinduism has its own vocabulary; yogahas its own way of expression of the reality; Vedanta has its own approach. Hetaught me in the traditional way of yoga and Vedanta and Indian religiouslanguage. . . .  (International Times{IT} 15th December 1967)

As for the terms Maharishi decided on,ideas got more accessible to us Westerners with our materialistic values. Maharishi was on the way to convert Hindi speechinto English terms as early as in the Beacon Light book, where he started toremodel the vocabulary, says Paul Mason. Paulwonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with, what word(s)did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.) Brahman? That is onequestion. Paul has noticed that Maharishi translates the word 'param' to'transcendental' as in 'Param Brahma' and in 'param vyoman'.  FairSanskrit glossary: http://sanskritdictionary.org/paramatma Paul,further says it would be great to have aglossary of Sanskrit words that Guru Devused and what Maharishi translated or interpreted them into. "Maharishitended not to be literal in his handling of translation of phrases, preferringto bring out the meaning according to his own perspective and understanding,"says Paul Mason, and: "Can [anyone] offer examplesof these adaptations of the vocabulary, apart from andanda > bliss . . . ?"

Lothar believes one of the keys for understandinghow Maharishi's terms derive from Guru Dev's, is the context [setting], thatis, the audience to which the teaching is addressed. Guru Dev in his day-to-day teachings talkedto common Indian people. Lothar further maintains that Maharishi [came]to adjust his teaching to Western people and therefore [made] one concessionafter the other - and to finally “to water down” the message and likewise theTechnique of Meditation, where "Maharshi was forced to twice 20 minutesregarding the practice. And . . .  Maharishi had to be very careful not toendanger his mission and . . . speak in religious terms - although he did it inthe beginning." Paul says,"I am inclined to see that Maharishi was doing his best at teaching thetechniques his master taught, in spite of dealing with students who did nothave a leaning towards Hinduism, Advaita or yoga philosophy." -------------------------------------
That's it!
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'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-25 17:12:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Jackson ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
what horse shit -who witnessed such a conversation? Marshy is the only
one who ever claimed to have gotten the idea from GD and others who
were their said GD told him he was to be a businessman, and not a
spiritual teacher. If the track record of the Movement is any
indication, even if M did get the commission from GD, he failed
miserably in carrying out the task.
/Well, yes - how could anyone compare Maharishi's world-wide movement
and billion-dollar enterprise with your own computer repair business
operating out of your living room duplex in SC? Go figure./
Post by Michael Jackson ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:26 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi
Guru Dev's teachings and methods vs those of Maharishi
Guru Dev, one of the heads of Advaita Vedanta [non-duality Vedanta) in
Adi Shankara's tradition, taught daily living and Advaita to folks. He
- My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing
remains. There was something else I should have done, but I did not
have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the work
remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a tradition
that the father's task is completed by his son and what now remains
you shall complete by yourself.
- Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains?
Your wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can
fulfil it.
-Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of
energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p.
261] have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for
the householder,which has been misinterpreted and forgotten during the
centuries. This should now be perfected into a simple method suitable
for everyone. Ask the people to sit and meditate after this method a
few moments every morning and evening. Teach them to enjoy life. [Elsa
Dragemark. /The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas./Stockholm: E. Dragemark,
1972, p. 261-62.]
- end of quote.
This tells that the TM method and how to do it for old and new TM-ers
is from Maharishi's Guru Dev - who is honoured as the Guru Dev of the
TM movement, and by Maharishi also, even until his last words. He
declared on 12 January 2008: "It has been my pleasure at the feet of
Guru Dev (Brahmananda Saraswati), to take the light of Guru Dev and
pass it on in my environment. Now today, I am closing my designed duty
to Guru Dev." then he wished "Peace, happiness, prosperity, and
freedom from suffering" to the world..
But there are issues to struggle with; to make out of. For example,
did Maharishi teach all that Guru Dev had taught him, all of it? Did
he swerve from Advaita content for the sake of adaptations? Did he
find good replacement words for old Advaita terms?
Such puzzles have started to surface on another board, which is
devoted to Guru Dev. Maybe many of you know something here. To help
"starting the engine", let me render from the thread called
-----------------------------------
**
*"Guru Dev's teaching of meditation, comparison with TM
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Shankaracharya_Swami_Brahmanand_Ji/conversations/topics/159;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWo0YjVzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxODMwMDE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3NzA3NgRtc2dJZAMxNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTQxNjkwNTY3NA-->"*
**
Paul Mason writes he had a 1961 leaflet in which the words of Guru Dev
are found alongside an appraisal of the meditation that Maharishi was
teaching. . . . Clearly, the teaching is radically different in style.
Despite different, specialized words relating to Advaita and
meditation,/the method of meditation seems to him to be very similar./
And Maharishi was one of his disciples, so there is common ground
between their teachings [and] many similarities.
The different vocabulary
In 1967 Maharishi was interviewed for International Times and talked
on his having adapted the vocabulary of Guru Dev, saying:-
'It is I who gave it the present expression, but I learnt it from him
[Guru Dev] in the traditional way ... through very old expressions of
religious order. Every religion has its own vocabulary; Hinduism has
its own vocabulary; yoga has its own way of expression of the reality;
Vedanta has its own approach. He taught me in the traditional way of
yoga and Vedanta and Indian religious language. . . . (International
Times {IT} 15th December 1967)
As for the terms Maharishi decided on, ideas got more accessible to us
Westerners with our materialistic values. Maharishi was on the way to
convert Hindi speech into English terms as early as in the Beacon
Light book, where he started to remodel the vocabulary, says Paul Mason.
Paul wonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with,
what word(s) did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.)
Brahman? That is one question. Paul has noticed that Maharishi
translates the word 'param' to 'transcendental' as in 'Param Brahma'
and in 'param vyoman'.
http://sanskritdictionary.org/paramatma
Paul, further says it would be great to have /a glossary of Sanskrit
words that *Guru Dev *used/ and what Maharishi translated or
interpreted them into. "Maharishi tended not to be literal in his
handling of translation of phrases, preferring to bring out the
meaning according to his own perspective and understanding," says Paul
Mason, and: "Can [anyone] offer examples of these adaptations of the
vocabulary, apart from andanda > bliss . . . ?"
Lothar believes one of the keys for understanding how Maharishi's
terms derive from Guru Dev's, is the context [setting], that is, the
audience to which the teaching is addressed.
Guru Dev in his day-to-day teachings talked to common Indian people.
Lothar further maintains that Maharishi [came] to adjust his teaching
to Western people and therefore [made] one concession after the other
- and to finally “to water down” the message and likewise the
Technique of Meditation, where "
Maharshi was forced to twice 20 minutes regarding the practice. And .
. . Maharishi had to be very careful not to endanger his mission and
. . . speak in religious terms - although he did it in the beginning."
Paul says, "I am inclined to see that Maharishi was doing his best at
teaching the techniques his master taught, in spite of dealing with
students who did not have a leaning towards Hinduism, Advaita or yoga
philosophy."
-------------------------------------
That's it!
'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-25 17:07:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
Paul wonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with,
what word(s) did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.)
Brahman?
According to the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon the Sanskrit word
"para" and "paramatma" means "/Supreme or Absolute Being" , the
"Universal Soul" - or the "soul of the universe./"

http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche
dhamiltony2k5@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 04:45:37 UTC
Permalink
A Great compilation Post, whoever you are. Good counter to all the nuttiness of the conspiracy wonks around Maharishi and Guru Dev. Worth a bookmark. Thanks for taking the time to come over here. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck
***@...> writes :
Guru Dev's teachings and methods vs those of Maharishi Guru Dev, one of the heads of Advaita Vedanta [non-duality Vedanta) in Adi Shankara's tradition, taught daily living and Advaita to folks. He is quoted to have said to his devoted disciple Mahesh:


Quote:
Guru Dev then called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru Dev said:
- My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing remains. There was something else I should have done, but I did not have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the work remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a tradition that the father's task is completed by his son and what now remains you shall complete by yourself.
- Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains? Your wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can fulfil it.
Guru Dev said:
-Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p. 261] have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for the householder, which has been misinterpreted and forgotten during the centuries. This should now be perfected into a simple method suitable for everyone. Ask the people to sit and meditate after this method a few moments every morning and evening. Teach them to enjoy life. [Elsa Dragemark. The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas. Stockholm: E. Dragemark, 1972, p. 261-62.]

- end of quote.

This tells that the TM method and how to do it for old and new TM-ers is from Maharishi's Guru Dev - who is honoured as the Guru Dev of the TM movement, and by Maharishi also, even until his last words. He declared on 12 January 2008: "It has been my pleasure at the feet of Guru Dev (Brahmananda Saraswati), to take the light of Guru Dev and pass it on in my environment. Now today, I am closing my designed duty to Guru Dev." then he wished "Peace, happiness, prosperity, and freedom from suffering" to the world..


But there are issues to struggle with; to make out of. For example, did Maharishi teach all that Guru Dev had taught him, all of it? Did he swerve from Advaita content for the sake of adaptations? Did he find good replacement words for old Advaita terms?


Such puzzles have started to surface on another board, which is devoted to Guru Dev. Maybe many of you know something here. To help "starting the engine", let me render from the thread called


-----------------------------------
I RENDER FROM HERE ON:

"Guru Dev's teaching of meditation, comparison with TM https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Shankaracharya_Swami_Brahmanand_Ji/conversations/topics/159;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWo0YjVzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxODMwMDE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3NzA3NgRtc2dJZAMxNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTQxNjkwNTY3NA--"

Paul Mason writes he had a 1961 leaflet in which the words of Guru Dev are found alongside an appraisal of the meditation that Maharishi was teaching. . . . Clearly, the teaching is radically different in style. Despite different, specialized words relating to Advaita and meditation, the method of meditation seems to him to be very similar. And Maharishi was one of his disciples, so there is common ground between their teachings [and] many similarities.
The different vocabulary In 1967 Maharishi was interviewed for International Times and talked on his having adapted the vocabulary of Guru Dev, saying:-

'It is I who gave it the present expression, but I learnt it from him [Guru Dev] in the traditional way ... through very old expressions of religious order. Every religion has its own vocabulary; Hinduism has its own vocabulary; yoga has its own way of expression of the reality; Vedanta has its own approach. He taught me in the traditional way of yoga and Vedanta and Indian religious language. . . . (International Times {IT} 15th December 1967)


As for the terms Maharishi decided on, ideas got more accessible to us Westerners with our materialistic values. Maharishi was on the way to convert Hindi speech into English terms as early as in the Beacon Light book, where he started to remodel the vocabulary, says Paul Mason.

Paul wonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with, what word(s) did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.) Brahman? That is one question. Paul has noticed that Maharishi translates the word 'param' to 'transcendental' as in 'Param Brahma' and in 'param vyoman'.

Fair Sanskrit glossary:
http://sanskritdictionary.org/paramatma

Paul, further says it would be great to have a glossary of Sanskrit words that Guru Dev used and what Maharishi translated or interpreted them into. "Maharishi tended not to be literal in his handling of translation of phrases, preferring to bring out the meaning according to his own perspective and understanding," says Paul Mason, and: "Can [anyone] offer examples of these adaptations of the vocabulary, apart from andanda > bliss . . . ?"


Lothar believes one of the keys for understanding how Maharishi's terms derive from Guru Dev's, is the context [setting], that is, the audience to which the teaching is addressed.
Guru Dev in his day-to-day teachings talked to common Indian people.

Lothar further maintains that Maharishi [came] to adjust his teaching to Western people and therefore [made] one concession after the other - and to finally “to water down” the message and likewise the Technique of Meditation, where "
Maharshi was forced to twice 20 minutes regarding the practice. And . . . Maharishi had to be very careful not to endanger his mission and . . . speak in religious terms - although he did it in the beginning."

Paul says, "I am inclined to see that Maharishi was doing his best at teaching the techniques his master taught, in spite of dealing with students who did not have a leaning towards Hinduism, Advaita or yoga philosophy."


-------------------------------------


That's it!
nablusoss1008
2014-11-26 11:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Buck, be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 12:11:16 UTC
Permalink
From: nablusoss1008 <***@yahoogroups.com>

  Buck, be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
Can't argue with Nabby's logic here, because it's essentially the same thing that Michael and Salyavin and myself have been saying for years: 
"Any time you see the words 'Jai Guru Dev' written at the bottom of something, run away quickly because nine times out of ten the person who wrote it is trying to rip you off."
steve.sundur@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 13:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Uh, Barry. I think you've been saying it for, maybe 20 years, five, six, seven times a day.

What is it you were saying about obsession, yesterday?


Or was it yesterday, or maybe the day before that, or maybe the day before that, or maybe........................


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

From: nablusoss1008 <***@yahoogroups.com>

Buck, be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.


Can't argue with Nabby's logic here, because it's essentially the same thing that Michael and Salyavin and myself have been saying for years:

"Any time you see the words 'Jai Guru Dev' written at the bottom of something, run away quickly because nine times out of ten the person who wrote it is trying to rip you off."
'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 14:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by nablusoss1008
Buck, be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev
this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt
Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
*/Can't argue with Nabby's logic here, because it's essentially the
same thing that Michael and Salyavin and myself have been saying for
/*
So, what happened to all the money you collected from poor students and
gave to the Fred Lenz cult - promising them /"instant enlightenment"/
just to pay for a phoney "magic trick show"? You and Fred made P.T
Barnum look like a saint!
Post by nablusoss1008
*/
/*
*/"Any time you see the words 'Jai Guru Dev' written at the bottom of
something, run away quickly because nine times out of ten the person
who wrote it is trying to rip you off."/*
/*
*/ Please stop the hypocrisy, Barry - it's just too embarrassing -
you're making all military-brats look like bigots. Why can't you figure
this out?
Post by nablusoss1008
/*
*/
Tormod Kinnes tkinnes@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 11:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by nablusoss1008
be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru
Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and
ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the
weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.

But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.

Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying
gifts". I am not a Greek.

Greekings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
Tormod Kinnes tkinnes@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 11:22:02 UTC
Permalink
One more thing,

I was asked about sources by Michael Jackson (not dead):

The source is Dr. Raj R. P. Varma.

Elsa Dragemark (1972) tells from her training time in the Himalayan academy
of Maharishi:

Doctor Varma came to Guru Dev six months before Maharishi and knows more
about Guru Dev and Maharishi than any other person I have met.
During the time Doctor Varma was a disciple of Guru Dev he did not withdraw
from the world to live as a monk. . . . {p. 240]
Doctor Varma had been a practicing homeopath, but since he was now quite
old - I would think about sixty-five - he had closed his practice and
retired. When the academy was open he spent his time there . . .
Fortunately Doctor Varma had not entirely abandoned his homoeopathic
practice - this to our great joy and benefit. . . .
One did not necessarily have to be ill to go to Doctor Varma, one
could just as easily pay him a visit for no particular reason at all. {p.
241] . . .
I did not always feel like talking nor for that matter did
Doctor Varma. Then I just wanted to sit there and watch how with soft,
graceful hand movements and brush strokes he mixed and applied paint to the
canvas - creating that, which would eventually depict Guru Dev on the
throne of the Shankaracharya. Guru Dev sat in the lotus position on the
carved and richly ornamented golden throne. In his right hand he held the
Shankaracharya staff while his left hand rested in his lap. He was dressed
in a bhakti-coloured - or translated into English orange-coloured - robe
and had heavy flower garlands around his neck. A pair of wooden sandals of
the simplest kind, placed in the foreground of the picture, made a touching
impression. They expressed modesty - yes, almost poverty in stark contrast
to the mighty one on the throne, whose inscrutable all-seeing gaze beheld
something distant -- in cosmos - while he at the same time scrutinized the
observer with penetrating eyes. The high forehead, glorified by wisdom and
holiness, was covered with an ochre-coloured sandal paste, giving coolness
to the highly developed brain. The sharply outlined mouth, surrounded by a
curly grey beard, bore witness of severity and firmness, but also of
endless compassion and love. The portrait really gave the impression of a
very alive personality.
I asked Doctor Varma if it wasn't difficult to reproduce Guru Dev's
expression.
He answered: "Yes, very. Nobody has yet succeeded, not even a
photographer has been able to capture and reproduce Guru Dev's expression,
but I do the best I can."
Doctor Varma lowered his voice and added almost solemnly: "Those, who
have once seen Guru Dev's eyes can never forget them." {p. 242]

CHAPTER 19, DOCTOR VARMA TELLS HOW MAHARISHI BECAME
GURU DEV'S DISCIPLE
— It was when Guru Dev had come out from the jungle that I first met him.
Then he was not yet Shankaracharya. Guru Dev was the pure and holy man with
strict rules of life that he had been reputed to be. He was not interested
in acquiring disciples and was therefore extremely restrained on the
subject. In the 24 hours the public was only allowed to meet him for half
an hour. That was between six-thirty and seven o'clock at night. A
bramachary guarded his door.
I came to the house where Guru Dev lived and asked the bramachary for
permission to enter and to sit at Guru Dev's feet, but he said:
— No, no don't be in such a hurry to see Guru Dev.
I came evening after evening, but each time I was staved off in this
way.
The bramachary asked everyone who came to see Guru Dev:
— What is your name? Do you desire to see Guru Dev?
He made a note of the name after which he went to Guru Dev and asked
if such and such a person might have an audience.
Guru Dev closed his eyes for a moment and answered either "Let him
come in" or "Ask him to leave", for by only knowing the visitor's name he
was able to tell what kind of person he was. . . .
I was allowed to enter and sit at Guru Dev's feet . . . in 1939 - and
then I was also initiated. . . .
Guru Dev visited Jabalpur six months later. It was then that
Maharishi first met Guru Dev. Maharishi had just then taken his degrees in
mathematics and physics at the university of Allahabad.

Maharishi: "We were a few men who had gone to visit Guru Dev. We sat
outside his door for a long time until we were finally admitted. We sat
down by the door which had been left open. Guru Dev sat in darkness. We
could only sense his presence - he didn't talk to us. Suddenly a car drove
by on the road and the headlights momentarily shone in through the open
door. For the first time I was able to see Guru Dev's face. Oh, it was a
wonderful sight! I have never seen anything so wonderful. Immediately I
experienced a deep reverence and devotion to him and I decided to do
everything in my power to be in his surroundings." {p. 257]

Doctor Varma continued:
A few days after Maharishi had seen Guru Dev for the first time he
returned and said:
— I wish to be your bramachary. . . .
Guru Dev:
-- If you want to become a bramachary you must have your parents'
permission. Without their permission you may not become a bramachary.
It was difficult for Maharishi to convince his parents how very
important it was for him to be allowed to become a bramachary with {p. 257]
Guru Dev. But finally his father gave in and said to Guru Dev, "I give my
son permission to go to you." That same evening Maharishi left his home to
go to Guru Dev. Maharishi was now a young man of 23.

— What came to be the most deciding factor in his life I have already told
you - I mean the meeting with Guru Dev. Maharishi rose like a clear comet
on the spiritual firmament. He came to the ashram as a youth bubbling over
with mirth, full of energy and joy of living. He became so devoted to his
master in everything - yes, so devoted that he forgot himself. He gave
himself no time for food or drink - even less for sleep. At night he lay
down outside Guru Dev's door in order always to be available in case his
master needed him.
About half a year after Maharishi became a disciple of Guru Dev, Guru Dev
accepted the Holy Shankaracharya Throne of Jyotir Math in Badariashramam,
Himalaya. He was now called "His Holiness Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,
Maharaj, Jagad-Guru Bhagwan Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math". Guru Dev was at
this time 73 years old and the year was 1941. {p. 259]

Maharishi on Guru Dev: "His Darshan (Divine Look) made people feel as if
some ancient Maharishi from the Upanishads had been reborn and that it was
worth while to lead a good life and to strive to realize the Divine."

Dr. Varma, continuing: "Thirteen years and seven months had now elapsed
since the day that Maharishi joined Guru Dev. During these 13 years
Maharishi had often lived as a hermit for long periods. This part of his
training would be put to good use."
"Maharishi accepted Guru Dev's last wish as his guiding line and
life-task." [p.262] . . .
Maharishi's task was now to reunite man with his origin - with Truth,
revive that, . . . and perfect a technique which was suitable to everyone
who lived an extrovert life, according to Dr Varma .
"Maharishi left for Uttar Kashi, for the place where Guru Dev had
lived as a hermit during the time he was a disciple of Swami Krishanand
Saraswati. There in a cave in the "Valley of the Saints", in the Himalayas,
Maharishi dwelt in solitude and developed that technique which he would
eventually call transcendental meditation and which would prove to be the
way to fulfilment for so many, many people all over the world.
The technique behind transcendental meditation is founded on the
natural tendency of the mind to be drawn towards satisfaction in all
spheres of life. That is to say, one turns the attention inwards for a
while and then, when the mind is charged with energy and creativity, the
wish, the will and the ability will be again to turn one's attention
outwards towards a useful life in society.
Three years passed before Maharishi had developed the method, just as
uniformly simple as Guru Dev had wished.
It was with eagerness that Maharishi after these three years left his
cave in the "Valley of the Saints" and set out to see if his method was
effective or not. He wanted to ascertain whether his method really could
give the people what he wished and intented.
He set out for Kashmir. In Phalgam, not far from the capital city of
Srinagar, Maharishi took his first disciples.
The joy and satisfaction he must have known, when through them he
received confirmation that transcendental meditation worked well, is not
difficult to imagine. It not only worked effectively, but it immediately or
after a short time of practice gave astounding results.
Maharishi stayed in Phalgam for two months. This was in 1956." {p.
263]

------------------------

Enjoy!
Post by nablusoss1008
be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru
Post by nablusoss1008
Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and
ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the
weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.
But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.
Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying
gifts". I am not a Greek.
Greekings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
--
Tormod Kinnes
nablusoss1008
2014-11-26 11:47:23 UTC
Permalink
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.



---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.

I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.


But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.


Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying gifts". I am not a Greek.


Greekings,






--
Tormod Kinnes
Michael Jackson mjackson74@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 12:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Ahhh, I love to watch the True Believers fight amongst one another - just a good confirmation of the lack of effect of TM and the so-called Marshy Effect!

From: nablusoss1008 <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:47 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that  this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :



be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.

I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.
But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.
Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying gifts". I am not a Greek.
Greekings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
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'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 13:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Jackson ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
Ahhh, I love to watch the True Believers fight amongst one another -
just a good confirmation of the lack of effect of TM and the so-called
Marshy Effect!
You'd think a guy hailing from SC with a reputation like he's got would
try to make himself look good - at least on the internet. Go figure.
Post by Michael Jackson ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:47 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself
warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the future.
I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's
progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as
your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.
be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev
this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt
Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from
meditating.
I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time)
when the weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.
But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.
Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks
carrying gifts". I am not a Greek.
Greekings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
Share Long sharelong60@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 12:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Tormod, nice to have another poster in the Funny Farm Lounge* (FFL) who has a good sense of humor.
* the nickname Funny Farm Lounge was coined by Bhairitu.
From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 5:19 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

 
be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.

I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.
But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.
Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying gifts". I am not a Greek.
Greekings,
--
Tormod Kinnes <!--#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp #yiv6393336926hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp #yiv6393336926ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp .yiv6393336926ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp .yiv6393336926ad p {margin:0;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-mkp .yiv6393336926ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-sponsor #yiv6393336926ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-sponsor #yiv6393336926ygrp-lc #yiv6393336926hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv6393336926 #yiv6393336926ygrp-sponsor #yiv6393336926ygrp-lc .yiv6393336926ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv6393336926 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Tormod Kinnes tkinnes@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 12:24:17 UTC
Permalink
RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS

Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .

I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself
Post by nablusoss1008
warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've
never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as
one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your
"review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.
Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and humans.
You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on the side of
Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies who would kill
him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a man's enemies will
be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:36). You are not of my
household, thanks God!

Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.

There is Buddha's great advice to investigate - going against dumb belief
- a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle in a dark,
dark cave:

"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya, ma
Post by nablusoss1008
pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma akaraparivitakkena, nid
ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."
It says, in one translation:

Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus have we
Post by nablusoss1008
heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has been
handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing what others
say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived
notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be
accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by us (and
that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these things
are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when
performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these things are
blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when
performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness - then live
and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]
So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to investigate
like a human.

By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable
cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a fool
with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and decency help out
- up to a point.

As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken up in
may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a blend of own
experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I could have gone
into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by a Norwegian
university: http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html
--
T. Kinnes
TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 12:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008 also lives in Norway.

He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's doubtful he ever meditated a day in his life.

Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about his belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme, who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years. Without ever appearing, of course.  :-)

If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out.
From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS 

Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .

I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that  this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.

Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!
Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.
There is Buddha's great  advice to investigate - going against dumb belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle in a dark, dark cave:

"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya, ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."

It says, in one translation:


Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]

So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to investigate like a human.
By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and decency help out - up to a point. 
As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by a Norwegian university:  http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html
--
T. Kinnes <!--#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp #yiv8910177446hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp #yiv8910177446ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp .yiv8910177446ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp .yiv8910177446ad p {margin:0;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-mkp .yiv8910177446ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-sponsor #yiv8910177446ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-sponsor #yiv8910177446ygrp-lc #yiv8910177446hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv8910177446 #yiv8910177446ygrp-sponsor #yiv8910177446ygrp-lc .yiv8910177446ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv8910177446 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TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 13:09:25 UTC
Permalink
While I'm giving you the standard "Newbie warning" about Nabby, Tormod, I should probably caution you about the person posting as Richard J. Williams (and also occasionally posting as "punditster," "Pundit Sir," "WillyTex," and other obvious aliases).

He's another well-known crank and Internet troll, famous for doing everything he possibly can on this and other forums to disrupt real conversations and provoke arguments for over 20 years now.

Read his stuff if you want, but bear in mind before replying to him that he is still on the Sexual Offender's List of the state he lives in. As I understand it, many people where he lives...uh...date outside their species, but Richard preferred his conquests young, and thus developed relationships with *underaged* prairie dogs. That's looked down upon, even in Texas.

Don't say you weren't warned...


From: "TurquoiseBee ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008 also lives in Norway.

He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's doubtful he ever meditated a day in his life.

Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about his belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme, who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years. Without ever appearing, of course.  :-)

If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out.


From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS 

Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .

I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that  this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.

Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!
Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.
There is Buddha's great  advice to investigate - going against dumb belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle in a dark, dark cave:

"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya, ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."

It says, in one translation:


Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]

So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to investigate like a human.
By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and decency help out - up to a point. 
As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by a Norwegian university:  http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html
--
T. Kinnes

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awoelflebater@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 14:51:30 UTC
Permalink
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

While I'm giving you the standard "Newbie warning" about Nabby, Tormod, I should probably caution you about the person posting as Richard J. Williams (and also occasionally posting as "punditster," "Pundit Sir," "WillyTex," and other obvious aliases).



He's another well-known crank and Internet troll, famous for doing everything he possibly can on this and other forums to disrupt real conversations and provoke arguments for over 20 years now.



Read his stuff if you want, but bear in mind before replying to him that he is still on the Sexual Offender's List of the state he lives in. As I understand it, many people where he lives...uh...date outside their species, but Richard preferred his conquests young, and thus developed relationships with *underaged* prairie dogs. That's looked down upon, even in Texas.



Don't say you weren't warned...


And Tormod, we'll just let bawee speak for himself. You'll get a very clear picture of what this guy is all about in no time. No one needs to embellish what dreck he spews here about everyone. One thing I will say - you can't believe a word he says - about anyone or anything. He lives to make stuff up in order to elevate himself on what he thinks is the pedestal of original and independent thinking. Just humor him.
'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 16:57:53 UTC
Permalink
*/While I'm giving you the standard "Newbie warning" about Nabby,
Tormod, I should probably caution you about the person posting as
Richard J. Williams (and also occasionally posting as "punditster,"
"Pundit Sir," "WillyTex," and other obvious aliases).
/*
Since we are introducing ourselves, maybe we should start out by letting
new subscribers know that they can judge the respondents on this list by
reading what they have posted to the group and just let their words
speak for themselves.

Is that alright with you Mr. Wright?

http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=Richard+J.+Williams&l=fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com
*/
/*
*/He's another well-known crank and Internet troll, famous for doing
everything he possibly can on this and other forums to disrupt real
conversations and provoke arguments for over 20 years now.
/*
*/
/*
*/Read his stuff if you want, but bear in mind before replying to him
that he is still on the Sexual Offender's List of the state he lives
in. As I understand it, many people where he lives...uh...date outside
their species, but Richard preferred his conquests young, and thus
developed relationships with *underaged* prairie dogs. That's looked
down upon, even in Texas.
/*
*/
/*
*/Don't say you weren't warned.../*
*/
/*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of
Maharishi
*/Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been
giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008
also lives in Norway.
/*
*/
/*
*/He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent
some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to
remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts
anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he
wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days
because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program
teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time
being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's doubtful
he ever meditated a day in his life.
/*
*/
/*
*/Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him
seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about his
belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the
supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme,
who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years.
Without ever appearing, of course. :-)
/*
*/
/*
*/If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real
TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be
a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out. /*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi
RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS
Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself
warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the
future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the
Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff
as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.
Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and
humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on
the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies
who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a
man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew
10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!
Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.
There is Buddha's great advice to investigate - going against dumb
belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle
"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya,
ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma
akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma
bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."
Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus
have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has
been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing
what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your
preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by
us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these
things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise,
these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and
sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these
things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these
things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and
happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]
So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to
investigate like a human.
By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable
cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a
fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and
decency help out - up to a point.
As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken
up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a
blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I
could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by
a Norwegian university: http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html
--
T. Kinnes
Share Long sharelong60@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 17:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Richard, I think turq is bonkers wrt you. Honestly, imho, you're definitely one of the most versatile posters here: sometimes profound, sometimes funny, sometimes just plain interesting. Who cares if you post a lot?! Oh, that's right, people for whom *scrolling down* is such a hardship LOL!
From: "'Richard J. Williams' ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  On 11/26/2014 7:09 AM, TurquoiseBee ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

  While I'm giving you the standard "Newbie warning" about Nabby, Tormod, I should probably caution you about the person posting as Richard J. Williams (and also occasionally posting as "punditster," "Pundit Sir," "WillyTex," and other obvious aliases).
Since we are introducing ourselves, maybe we should start out by letting new subscribers know that they can judge the respondents on this list by reading what they have posted to the group and just let their words speak for themselves.

Is that alright with you Mr. Wright?

http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=Richard+J.+Williams&l=fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com
He's another well-known crank and Internet troll, famous for doing everything he possibly can on this and other forums to disrupt real conversations and provoke arguments for over 20 years now.

Read his stuff if you want, but bear in mind before replying to him that he is still on the Sexual Offender's List of the state he lives in. As I understand it, many people where he lives...uh...date outside their species, but Richard preferred his conquests young, and thus developed relationships with *underaged* prairie dogs. That's looked down upon, even in Texas.

Don't say you weren't warned...


From: "TurquoiseBee ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008 also lives in Norway.

He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's doubtful he ever meditated a day in his life.

Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about his belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme, who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years. Without ever appearing, of course.  :-)

If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out.


From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS 

Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .

I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that  this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.

Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!
Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.
There is Buddha's great  advice to investigate - going against dumb belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle in a dark, dark cave:

"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya, ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."

It says, in one translation:


Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]

So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to investigate like a human.
By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and decency help out - up to a point. 
As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by a Norwegian university:  http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html

--
T. Kinnes





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'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 21:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Share Long ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
Richard, I think turq is bonkers wrt you. Honestly, imho, you're
definitely one of the most versatile posters here: sometimes profound,
sometimes funny, sometimes just plain interesting. Who cares if you
post a lot?! Oh, that's right, people for whom *scrolling down* is
such a hardship LOL!
/Thanks Share. One of the many things no one tells you about aging is
that it is such a nice change from being young. Ah, being young is
beautiful, but being old is comfortable./ /LoL!/

We were here:



/San Antonio Public Library/
Post by Share Long ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:57 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of
Maharishi
*/While I'm giving you the standard "Newbie warning" about Nabby,
Tormod, I should probably caution you about the person posting as
Richard J. Williams (and also occasionally posting as "punditster,"
"Pundit Sir," "WillyTex," and other obvious aliases).
/*
Since we are introducing ourselves, maybe we should start out by
letting new subscribers know that they can judge the respondents on
this list by reading what they have posted to the group and just let
their words speak for themselves.
Is that alright with you Mr. Wright?
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=Richard+J.+Williams&l=fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com
*/
/*
*/He's another well-known crank and Internet troll, famous for doing
everything he possibly can on this and other forums to disrupt real
conversations and provoke arguments for over 20 years now.
/*
*/
/*
*/Read his stuff if you want, but bear in mind before replying to him
that he is still on the Sexual Offender's List of the state he lives
in. As I understand it, many people where he lives...uh...date
outside their species, but Richard preferred his conquests young, and
thus developed relationships with *underaged* prairie dogs. That's
looked down upon, even in Texas.
/*
*/
/*
*/Don't say you weren't warned.../*
*/
/*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of
Maharishi
*/Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been
giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008
also lives in Norway.
/*
*/
/*
*/He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent
some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to
remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts
anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he
wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days
because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program
teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time
being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's
doubtful he ever meditated a day in his life.
/*
*/
/*
*/Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him
seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about
his belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the
supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme,
who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years.
Without ever appearing, of course. :-)
/*
*/
/*
*/If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real
TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be
a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out. /*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi
RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS
Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself
warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the
future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the
Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff
as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.
Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and
humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be
on the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained
enemies who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public
that "a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
(Matthew 10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!
Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.
There is Buddha's great advice to investigate - going against dumb
belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a
"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya,
ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma
akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma
bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."
Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus
have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it
has been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing
what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your
preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie,
should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by
us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral,
these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the
wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to
ruin and sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these
things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these
things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and
happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]
So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to
investigate like a human.
By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many
uncultivable cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say
you were a fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil
manners and decency help out - up to a point.
As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken
up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a
blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I
could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted
by a Norwegian university: http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html
--
T. Kinnes
nablusoss1008
2014-11-26 13:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Spending most of my time in Berlin it's always funny to read abot the Turqs hallucinations. His anger for having been exposed as someone not knowing anything about Tantra yet calling himself "uncletantra" seems to be unbounded.
And just for the record. a) Benjamin Creme is not my teacher and b) there is nothing whatsoever contradictory between his writings and the teaching of Maharishi b) I can join Flying-halls in any facility owned by the Movement in any part of the world whenever I wish and spent two days in Seelisberg just a few weeks ago, Felix being an old friend of mine. I've said this several times before here, instead the Turq prefferrs to listen to his hallucinations brought about by old age and excessive consumption of alchohol.
As for Tormod I have no reason to doubt his motifs. My comment was made on a general basis based on a quote from Maharishi.



---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008 also lives in Norway.



He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's doubtful he ever meditated a day in his life.



Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about his belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme, who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years. Without ever appearing, of course. :-)



If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out.


From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@... [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi



RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS



Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .


I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.

Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!


Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.


There is Buddha's great advice to investigate - going against dumb belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle in a dark, dark cave:

"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya, ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."
It says, in one translation:

Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]

So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to investigate like a human.


By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and decency help out - up to a point.


As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by a Norwegian university: http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html



--
T. Kinnes
Bhairitu noozguru@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 16:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Yaw, I've veen vatching zeezon vree of "Lillyhammer" on da Netflix. In
zee epizode vour zee staff at ze Flamingo are learnzing meditation, not
ze TM kind but ze "mindfulness" kind. It alzo zeems zey hast gottzen
tired of cold and snowy Norvay and shot zum zeens in Rio.
*/Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has been
giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously as Nablusos1008
also lives in Norway.
/*
*/
/*
*/He *claims* to have been a TM teacher and even claims to have spent
some time on TM Purusha courses in the past. But it's important to
remember that these are unsubstantiated claims because 1) he posts
anonymously, so no one knows his name, 2) as far as we can tell he
wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a real TM facility these days
because of his association with and promotion of Off The Program
teachers such as Benjamin Creme, and 3) he spends so much of his time
being angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't him that it's doubtful
he ever meditated a day in his life.
/*
*/
/*
*/Nabby (our nickname for him, since literally no one here takes him
seriously) is regarded by most as a crank. He tends to write about his
belief in aliens that he calls the "Space Brothers" and about the
supposed savior "Maitreya" touted by his real teacher Benjamin Creme,
who has been about to appear any day now for almost thirty years.
Without ever appearing, of course. :-)
/*
*/
/*
*/If you're there "on the ground" in Norway and in touch with real
TMers, ask around. Someone probably knows who this guy claiming to be
a former TM teacher really is. Let us know when you find out. /*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:24 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi
RALLYING THROUGH SUSPICIONS
Nablusoss1008 - if that is your real name . . .
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself
warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the
future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the
Movement's progress as one of his priorities.
As for the rest of what you wrote it's mostly blabber, same stuff
as your "review" of An Autobiography of A Yogi.
Every wild donkey has a right to be on its guard of predators and
humans. You look much more like a clown to me, but . . . you may be on
the side of Jesus. He not only suspected his family contained enemies
who would kill him - and they tried to - but warned in public that "a
man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew
10:36). You are not of my household, thanks God!
Go and suspect wisely and well on Biblical ground, you! But don't be rash.
There is Buddha's great advice to investigate - going against dumb
belief - a help to suspect well, try to live wisely and well, a candle
"Etha tumhe Kalama. Ma anussavena, ma paramparaya, ma itikiraya,
ma pitasampadanena, ma takkahetu, ma nayahetu, ma
akaraparivitakkena, nid ditthinijjhanakkhantiya, ma
bhabbarupataya, ma samanro no garu ti."
Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus
have we heard it for a long time).
Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has
been handed down thus through many generations).
Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing
what others say without any investigation).
Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures.
Do not accept anything by mere supposition.
Do not accept anything by mere inference.
Do not accept anything by merely considering the appearances.
Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your
preconceived notions.
Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable (ie, should be accepted).
Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by
us (and that therefore it is right to accept his word.)
But when you know for yourselves - these things are immoral, these
things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise,
these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to ruin and
sorrow - then reject them.
When you know for yourselves - these things are moral, these
things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these
things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and
happiness - then live and act accordingly." [This section: Bht 284-85]
So, try to benefit from the art of suspicion also, learn to
investigate like a human.
By the way, anonymous posters are a motley crew with many uncultivable
cowards in it ... You can take it to heart. I do not say you were a
fool with misplaced suspicions - that's where civil manners and
decency help out - up to a point.
As for me, I was fooled by Autobiography of a Yogi. What I have taken
up in may Amazon review of Autobiography of a Yogi takes off from a
blend of own experiences and facts. And there are many more facts I
could have gone into. Some are here, on my own net place and hosted by
a Norwegian university: http://oaks.nvg.org/ayol.html
--
T. Kinnes
'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-12-04 02:52:30 UTC
Permalink
TurquoiseB wrote:
*/> Tormod, it may interest you to know that the person who has
Post by TurquoiseBee ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
been giving you such a hard time while posting anonymously
as Nablusos1008 also lives in Norway./*
/"I've been sitting three feet in front of him and seen him go
invisible, to the point where you could see stars through the outline of
his body, and then no outline. I've seen him do the same trick from the
feet up, leaving only a Cheshire Cat smile before it went pop! and
disappeared, too."/ - TurquoiseB

http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife/yahoogroups.com/msg12287.html
<http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg12287.html>
Tormod Kinnes tkinnes@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 13:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Hei (Norwegian greeting),

Thanks!

I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.

Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement
rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has
confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.


Loving greetings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 13:46:11 UTC
Permalink
No problemo, Tormod. I posted partly to warn you who you were dealing with in Nabby, but also to give *him* a bit of a panic because he's terrified people here will find out his real name.

As for Richard Williams, what I said about him being...uh...overly fond of prairie dogs is not really true. At least not to the best of my knowledge.

What I said about him being generally recognized as being one of the biggest trolls on the Internet IS true, however, so be warned. Interacting with him in any way will just prove to be a waste of your time. I posted to warn you because his pattern is to pounce on all newbies (who don't know his patterns) and try to get them to interact with him, so he can waste their time and energy.  
From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi

  Hei (Norwegian greeting),

Thanks!
I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.
Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.


Loving greetings,-- 
Tormod Kinnes <!--#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp #yiv7397541181hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp #yiv7397541181ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp .yiv7397541181ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp .yiv7397541181ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-mkp .yiv7397541181ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-sponsor #yiv7397541181ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-sponsor #yiv7397541181ygrp-lc #yiv7397541181hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv7397541181 #yiv7397541181ygrp-sponsor #yiv7397541181ygrp-lc .yiv7397541181ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv7397541181 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nablusoss1008
2014-11-26 14:04:51 UTC
Permalink
What's next, will the Turq warn newbees of Judy, Fleetwood, dr. Pete, Rory, Stanley, Richard and the host of other posters here who have pointed out that the Turq is hallucinating ?


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

No problemo, Tormod. I posted partly to warn you who you were dealing with in Nabby, but also to give *him* a bit of a panic because he's terrified people here will find out his real name.



As for Richard Williams, what I said about him being...uh...overly fond of prairie dogs is not really true. At least not to the best of my knowledge.



What I said about him being generally recognized as being one of the biggest trolls on the Internet IS true, however, so be warned. Interacting with him in any way will just prove to be a waste of your time. I posted to warn you because his pattern is to pounce on all newbies (who don't know his patterns) and try to get them to interact with him, so he can waste their time and energy.


From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@... [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi



Hei (Norwegian greeting),


Thanks!


I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.


Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.





Loving greetings,
--

Tormod Kinnes
steve.sundur@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 16:06:33 UTC
Permalink
I mean, it is sorta funny to have all this advice from someone who claims to have so little invested in this site.

Here's he's acting as the deputy monitor.






---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

No problemo, Tormod. I posted partly to warn you who you were dealing with in Nabby, but also to give *him* a bit of a panic because he's terrified people here will find out his real name.



As for Richard Williams, what I said about him being...uh...overly fond of prairie dogs is not really true. At least not to the best of my knowledge.



What I said about him being generally recognized as being one of the biggest trolls on the Internet IS true, however, so be warned. Interacting with him in any way will just prove to be a waste of your time. I posted to warn you because his pattern is to pounce on all newbies (who don't know his patterns) and try to get them to interact with him, so he can waste their time and energy.

From: "Tormod Kinnes ***@... [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of Maharishi



Hei (Norwegian greeting),


Thanks!


I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.


Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.





Loving greetings,
--

Tormod Kinnes
'Richard J. Williams' punditster@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 20:38:24 UTC
Permalink
*/No problemo, Tormod. I posted partly to warn you who you were
dealing with in Nabby, but also to give *him* a bit of a panic because
he's terrified people here will find out his real name.
/*
*/
/*
*/As for Richard Williams, what I said about him being...uh...overly
fond of prairie dogs is not really true. At least not to the best of
my knowledge.
/*
*/
/*
*/What I said about him being generally recognized as being one of the
biggest trolls on the Internet IS true, however, so be warned.
Interacting with him in any way will just prove to be a waste of your
time. I posted to warn you because his pattern is to pounce on all
newbies /*
/>
Now this is really funny - /Barry Wright pounced on a newbie to warn him
about Richard Williams pouncing on a newbie. /It just doesn't get any
better than this! Thanks, Barry you just made my day! LoL!//
*
*/
*/(who don't know his patterns) and try to get them to interact with
him, so he can waste their time and energy. /*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:39 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's teachings and those of
Maharishi
Hei (Norwegian greeting),
Thanks!
I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.
Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM
movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much
research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life,
too, I can tell.
Loving greetings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
nablusoss1008
2014-11-26 13:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Hello Tormod, you seem to be a reasonable fellow. Please note that my comment was not directed at you specifically but rather in the direction of Paul Mason based on a comment Maharishi made some years ago that in the future some will try to sow discontent and doubts by trying to convince people of how devoted they are to Guru Dev. Their ultimate motifs could be to weaken the practice of meditation amongst TM'ers. It's something to keep in mind, nothing to be overly concerned about.


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Hei (Norwegian greeting),


Thanks!


I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.


Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.





Loving greetings,
--

Tormod Kinnes
fleetwood_macncheese@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 15:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Odd thing - Although I am immeasurably indebted to Maharishi for bringing out the knowledge, to basically "reverse the trends of time", as he so aptly put it, my devotion and the natural direction of my heart, always goes to SBS. On the one hand, overflowing gratitude to Maharishi, but the overflowing love always flows to Guru Dev. Not that I ever think twice about it. :-)


Welcome Tormod, I am 1/8 Norwegian (paternal grandmother was 1/2), though have not yet visited there, in this lifetime. I was pleasantly surprised to read recently that Norway is the wealthiest country in the world - No wonder TM is so popular there.

---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote :

Hello Tormod, you seem to be a reasonable fellow. Please note that my comment was not directed at you specifically but rather in the direction of Paul Mason based on a comment Maharishi made some years ago that in the future some will try to sow discontent and doubts by trying to convince people of how devoted they are to Guru Dev. Their ultimate motifs could be to weaken the practice of meditation amongst TM'ers. It's something to keep in mind, nothing to be overly concerned about.


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Hei (Norwegian greeting),


Thanks!


I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.


Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.





Loving greetings,
--

Tormod Kinnes
Tormod Kinnes tkinnes@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 15:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Hello!

Thank you, all well-meaning ones! I appreciate your concern my way.

Gratefully,
Post by ***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
Odd thing - Although I am immeasurably indebted to Maharishi for bringing
out the knowledge, to basically "reverse the trends of time", as he so
aptly put it, my devotion and the natural direction of my heart, always
goes to SBS. On the one hand, overflowing gratitude to Maharishi, but the
overflowing love always flows to Guru Dev. Not that I ever think twice
about it. :-)
Welcome Tormod, I am 1/8 Norwegian (paternal grandmother was 1/2), though
have not yet visited there, in this lifetime. I was pleasantly surprised to
read recently that Norway is the wealthiest country in the world - No
wonder TM is so popular there.
Hello Tormod, you seem to be a reasonable fellow. Please note that my
comment was not directed at you specifically but rather in the direction of
Paul Mason based on a comment Maharishi made some years ago that in the
future some will try to sow discontent and doubts by trying to convince
people of how devoted they are to Guru Dev. Their ultimate motifs could be
to weaken the practice of meditation amongst TM'ers. It's something to keep
in mind, nothing to be overly concerned about.
Hei (Norwegian greeting),
Thanks!
I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.
Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement
rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has
confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.
Loving greetings,
--
Tormod Kinnes
--
Tormod Kinnes
nablusoss1008
2014-11-26 17:29:45 UTC
Permalink
It's not odd. Even though many naturally see Maharishi as their guru because he was the one we interacted with for decades, he himself always reminded us from where the teaching came. He even said that Guru Dev is our Guru, not him. It's rather obvious that Guru Dev is the teacher for those who perhaps never met Maharishi.


Rare footage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Los Angeles




http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA

Rare footage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Los Angeles http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA http://www.tm.org Rare footage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi walking through a crowd of people to get to a lecture hall. Maharishi: Laughing Los Angeles has b...



View on www.youtube.com http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA
Preview by Yahoo



Guru Dev Shankaracharya Brahmananda Saraswati à€œà€¯ à€—à¥à€°à¥à€Šà¥‡à€µ Jai Guru Deva


http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0

Guru Dev Shankaracharya Brahmananda Saraswati à€œà€¯ à€—à¥à€°... http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0 Movie footage of Guru Dev, Shankaracharya Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, believed to have been filmed in Lucknow, India, circa April 1952. Visible ...



View on www.youtube.com http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0
Preview by Yahoo





---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Odd thing - Although I am immeasurably indebted to Maharishi for bringing out the knowledge, to basically "reverse the trends of time", as he so aptly put it, my devotion and the natural direction of my heart, always goes to SBS. On the one hand, overflowing gratitude to Maharishi, but the overflowing love always flows to Guru Dev. Not that I ever think twice about it. :-)


Welcome Tormod, I am 1/8 Norwegian (paternal grandmother was 1/2), though have not yet visited there, in this lifetime. I was pleasantly surprised to read recently that Norway is the wealthiest country in the world - No wonder TM is so popular there.

---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote :

Hello Tormod, you seem to be a reasonable fellow. Please note that my comment was not directed at you specifically but rather in the direction of Paul Mason based on a comment Maharishi made some years ago that in the future some will try to sow discontent and doubts by trying to convince people of how devoted they are to Guru Dev. Their ultimate motifs could be to weaken the practice of meditation amongst TM'ers. It's something to keep in mind, nothing to be overly concerned about.


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Hei (Norwegian greeting),


Thanks!


I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.


Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.





Loving greetings,
--

Tormod Kinnes
fleetwood_macncheese@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-26 17:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Yes, even after his passing, Maharishi makes it clear that devotion goes to Guru Dev. The mechanics are simply his intention, carried out by Nature.


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote :

It's not odd. Even though many naturally see Maharishi as their guru because he was the one we interacted with for decades, he himself always reminded us from where the teaching came. He even said that Guru Dev is our Guru, not him. It's rather obvious that Guru Dev is the teacher for those who perhaps never met Maharishi.


Rare footage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Los Angeles http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA



http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA

Rare footage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Los Angeles http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA http://www.tm.org Rare footage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi walking through a crowd of people to get to a lecture hall. Maharishi: Laughing Los Angeles has b...



View on www.youtube.com http://youtu.be/mb-LceeGeCA
Preview by Yahoo



Guru Dev Shankaracharya Brahmananda Saraswati à€œà€¯ à€—à¥à€°à¥à€Šà¥‡à€µ Jai Guru Deva http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0

http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0

Guru Dev Shankaracharya Brahmananda Saraswati à€œà€¯ à€—à¥à€°... http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0 Movie footage of Guru Dev, Shankaracharya Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, believed to have been filmed in Lucknow, India, circa April 1952. Visible ...



View on www.youtube.com http://youtu.be/u16wjc01ys0
Preview by Yahoo





---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Odd thing - Although I am immeasurably indebted to Maharishi for bringing out the knowledge, to basically "reverse the trends of time", as he so aptly put it, my devotion and the natural direction of my heart, always goes to SBS. On the one hand, overflowing gratitude to Maharishi, but the overflowing love always flows to Guru Dev. Not that I ever think twice about it. :-)


Welcome Tormod, I am 1/8 Norwegian (paternal grandmother was 1/2), though have not yet visited there, in this lifetime. I was pleasantly surprised to read recently that Norway is the wealthiest country in the world - No wonder TM is so popular there.

---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote :

Hello Tormod, you seem to be a reasonable fellow. Please note that my comment was not directed at you specifically but rather in the direction of Paul Mason based on a comment Maharishi made some years ago that in the future some will try to sow discontent and doubts by trying to convince people of how devoted they are to Guru Dev. Their ultimate motifs could be to weaken the practice of meditation amongst TM'ers. It's something to keep in mind, nothing to be overly concerned about.


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Hei (Norwegian greeting),


Thanks!


I have no idea of Nabby's identity, and may not try to find out either.


Now, there is one more thing - Maharishi did a lot to keep the TM movement rolling, and TM surely helps a lot. I am glad that much research has confirmed it. I have a lot to be grateful for - my life, too, I can tell.





Loving greetings,
--

Tormod Kinnes
dhamiltony2k5@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-27 17:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Nablusoss1008 writes: Buck, be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.



I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.


But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.


Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying gifts". I am not a Greek.


Greekings,


--

Tormod Kinnes


***@...> wrote :

Guru Dev's teachings and methods vs those of Maharishi Guru Dev, one of the heads of Advaita Vedanta [non-duality Vedanta) in Adi Shankara's tradition, taught daily living and Advaita to folks. He is quoted to have said to his devoted disciple Mahesh:


Quote:
Guru Dev then called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru Dev said:
- My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing remains. There was something else I should have done, but I did not have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the work remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a tradition that the father's task is completed by his son and what now remains you shall complete by yourself.
- Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains? Your wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can fulfil it.
Guru Dev said:
-Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p. 261] have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for the householder, which has been misinterpreted and forgotten during the centuries. This should now be perfected into a simple method suitable for everyone. Ask the people to sit and meditate after this method a few moments every morning and evening. Teach them to enjoy life. [Elsa Dragemark. The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas. Stockholm: E. Dragemark, 1972, p. 261-62.]

- end of quote.

This tells that the TM method and how to do it for old and new TM-ers is from Maharishi's Guru Dev - who is honoured as the Guru Dev of the TM movement, and by Maharishi also, even until his last words. He declared on 12 January 2008: "It has been my pleasure at the feet of Guru Dev (Brahmananda Saraswati), to take the light of Guru Dev and pass it on in my environment. Now today, I am closing my designed duty to Guru Dev." then he wished "Peace, happiness, prosperity, and freedom from suffering" to the world..


But there are issues to struggle with; to make out of. For example, did Maharishi teach all that Guru Dev had taught him, all of it? Did he swerve from Advaita content for the sake of adaptations? Did he find good replacement words for old Advaita terms?


Such puzzles have started to surface on another board, which is devoted to Guru Dev. Maybe many of you know something here. To help "starting the engine", let me render from the thread called


-----------------------------------
I RENDER FROM HERE ON:

"Guru Dev's teaching of meditation, comparison with TM https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Shankaracharya_Swami_Brahmanand_Ji/conversations/topics/159;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWo0YjVzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxODMwMDE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3NzA3NgRtc2dJZAMxNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTQxNjkwNTY3NA--"

Paul Mason writes he had a 1961 leaflet in which the words of Guru Dev are found alongside an appraisal of the meditation that Maharishi was teaching. . . . Clearly, the teaching is radically different in style. Despite different, specialized words relating to Advaita and meditation, the method of meditation seems to him to be very similar. And Maharishi was one of his disciples, so there is common ground between their teachings [and] many similarities.
The different vocabulary In 1967 Maharishi was interviewed for International Times and talked on his having adapted the vocabulary of Guru Dev, saying:-

'It is I who gave it the present expression, but I learnt it from him [Guru Dev] in the traditional way ... through very old expressions of religious order. Every religion has its own vocabulary; Hinduism has its own vocabulary; yoga has its own way of expression of the reality; Vedanta has its own approach. He taught me in the traditional way of yoga and Vedanta and Indian religious language. . . . (International Times {IT} 15th December 1967)


As for the terms Maharishi decided on, ideas got more accessible to us Westerners with our materialistic values. Maharishi was on the way to convert Hindi speech into English terms as early as in the Beacon Light book, where he started to remodel the vocabulary, says Paul Mason.

Paul wonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with, what word(s) did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.) Brahman? That is one question. Paul has noticed that Maharishi translates the word 'param' to 'transcendental' as in 'Param Brahma' and in 'param vyoman'.

Fair Sanskrit glossary:
http://sanskritdictionary.org/paramatma

Paul, further says it would be great to have a glossary of Sanskrit words that Guru Dev used and what Maharishi translated or interpreted them into. "Maharishi tended not to be literal in his handling of translation of phrases, preferring to bring out the meaning according to his own perspective and understanding," says Paul Mason, and: "Can [anyone] offer examples of these adaptations of the vocabulary, apart from andanda > bliss . . . ?"


Lothar believes one of the keys for understanding how Maharishi's terms derive from Guru Dev's, is the context [setting], that is, the audience to which the teaching is addressed.
Guru Dev in his day-to-day teachings talked to common Indian people.

Lothar further maintains that Maharishi [came] to adjust his teaching to Western people and therefore [made] one concession after the other - and to finally “to water down” the message and likewise the Technique of Meditation, where "
Maharshi was forced to twice 20 minutes regarding the practice. And . . . Maharishi had to be very careful not to endanger his mission and . . . speak in religious terms - although he did it in the beginning."

Paul says, "I am inclined to see that Maharishi was doing his best at teaching the techniques his master taught, in spite of dealing with students who did not have a leaning towards Hinduism, Advaita or yoga philosophy."


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That's it!
dhamiltony2k5@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
2014-11-27 18:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Dear Greekling, That is good. Old Icelanders have this imprint from the Viking days of old whereby Vikings coming in from around the countryside riding on their horses to their annual Parliament, the Althing [meeting], with their hands raised up open as a sign of coming in peace. I can feel you riding in to our camp here, your hands raised and open, a gesture of peace. Though in this group you proly need to shout some at times too to be heard and kept safe, sort of like those people down in Ferguson, Missouri who in street theatre whilst raising their hands shout, “Hands up, Don't Shoot!”. That might not even save you here. FFL is much more like a saloon than a parliament with any reasoned decorum. Most who come in here attempting to write here get cut down in a cross-fire of the forum sophists before they get too far in through the doorway. Watch your backside whilst you are here. There are some rough hombres who frequent this tavern. -Buck

Nablusoss1008 writes: Buck, be aware of false prophets. When someone is talking Guru Dev this and Guru Dev that, their agenda could be to try to hurt Maharishi's Movement and ultimately try to stop people from meditating.
I would not have written what I did if Maharishi had not himself warned that this exact situation would arise some time in the future. I've never for a moment believed that Paul Mason has the Movement's progress as one of his priorities.



I recognise it is good to prepare for foul weather (in good time) when the weather is fine and the sky is clear, too. Sure, sure.


But to warn against rain in the middle of a desert seems out of place too.


Since the fall of Troy there has been a saying against "Greeks carrying gifts". I am not a Greek.


Greekings,


--

Tormod Kinnes


***@...> wrote :

Guru Dev's teachings and methods vs those of Maharishi Guru Dev, one of the heads of Advaita Vedanta [non-duality Vedanta) in Adi Shankara's tradition, taught daily living and Advaita to folks. He is quoted to have said to his devoted disciple Mahesh:


Quote:
Guru Dev then called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru Dev said:
- My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing remains. There was something else I should have done, but I did not have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the work remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a tradition that the father's task is completed by his son and what now remains you shall complete by yourself.
- Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains? Your wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can fulfil it.
Guru Dev said:
-Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p. 261] have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for the householder, which has been misinterpreted and forgotten during the centuries. This should now be perfected into a simple method suitable for everyone. Ask the people to sit and meditate after this method a few moments every morning and evening. Teach them to enjoy life. [Elsa Dragemark. The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas. Stockholm: E. Dragemark, 1972, p. 261-62.]

- end of quote.

This tells that the TM method and how to do it for old and new TM-ers is from Maharishi's Guru Dev - who is honoured as the Guru Dev of the TM movement, and by Maharishi also, even until his last words. He declared on 12 January 2008: "It has been my pleasure at the feet of Guru Dev (Brahmananda Saraswati), to take the light of Guru Dev and pass it on in my environment. Now today, I am closing my designed duty to Guru Dev." then he wished "Peace, happiness, prosperity, and freedom from suffering" to the world..


But there are issues to struggle with; to make out of. For example, did Maharishi teach all that Guru Dev had taught him, all of it? Did he swerve from Advaita content for the sake of adaptations? Did he find good replacement words for old Advaita terms?


Such puzzles have started to surface on another board, which is devoted to Guru Dev. Maybe many of you know something here. To help "starting the engine", let me render from the thread called


-----------------------------------
I RENDER FROM HERE ON:

"Guru Dev's teaching of meditation, comparison with TM https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Shankaracharya_Swami_Brahmanand_Ji/conversations/topics/159;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWo0YjVzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxODMwMDE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA3NzA3NgRtc2dJZAMxNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTQxNjkwNTY3NA--"

Paul Mason writes he had a 1961 leaflet in which the words of Guru Dev are found alongside an appraisal of the meditation that Maharishi was teaching. . . . Clearly, the teaching is radically different in style. Despite different, specialized words relating to Advaita and meditation, the method of meditation seems to him to be very similar. And Maharishi was one of his disciples, so there is common ground between their teachings [and] many similarities.
The different vocabulary In 1967 Maharishi was interviewed for International Times and talked on his having adapted the vocabulary of Guru Dev, saying:-

'It is I who gave it the present expression, but I learnt it from him [Guru Dev] in the traditional way ... through very old expressions of religious order. Every religion has its own vocabulary; Hinduism has its own vocabulary; yoga has its own way of expression of the reality; Vedanta has its own approach. He taught me in the traditional way of yoga and Vedanta and Indian religious language. . . . (International Times {IT} 15th December 1967)


As for the terms Maharishi decided on, ideas got more accessible to us Westerners with our materialistic values. Maharishi was on the way to convert Hindi speech into English terms as early as in the Beacon Light book, where he started to remodel the vocabulary, says Paul Mason.

Paul wonders for example what Maharishi replaced 'Paramatma(n)' with, what word(s) did Maharishi use for Supreme (Highest, Ultimate etc.) Brahman? That is one question. Paul has noticed that Maharishi translates the word 'param' to 'transcendental' as in 'Param Brahma' and in 'param vyoman'.

Fair Sanskrit glossary:
http://sanskritdictionary.org/paramatma

Paul, further says it would be great to have a glossary of Sanskrit words that Guru Dev used and what Maharishi translated or interpreted them into. "Maharishi tended not to be literal in his handling of translation of phrases, preferring to bring out the meaning according to his own perspective and understanding," says Paul Mason, and: "Can [anyone] offer examples of these adaptations of the vocabulary, apart from andanda > bliss . . . ?"


Lothar believes one of the keys for understanding how Maharishi's terms derive from Guru Dev's, is the context [setting], that is, the audience to which the teaching is addressed.
Guru Dev in his day-to-day teachings talked to common Indian people.

Lothar further maintains that Maharishi [came] to adjust his teaching to Western people and therefore [made] one concession after the other - and to finally “to water down” the message and likewise the Technique of Meditation, where "
Maharshi was forced to twice 20 minutes regarding the practice. And . . . Maharishi had to be very careful not to endanger his mission and . . . speak in religious terms - although he did it in the beginning."

Paul says, "I am inclined to see that Maharishi was doing his best at teaching the techniques his master taught, in spite of dealing with students who did not have a leaning towards Hinduism, Advaita or yoga philosophy."


-------------------------------------


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